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filming in canada

Discussion in 'Cinestar Misc' started by Laurence Hamilton-Baillie, Dec 6, 2013.

  1. Laurence Hamilton-Baillie

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    hello, I will be filming in Canada in February with an independent, UK based film company . What is the current state of the legislation/ permission requirements etc in Canada? We are BNUC-s quallified with 5m public liability etc etc etc. But being based in the UK I am abit out of the loop on the current rules and regs for you yanks.
     
  2. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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  3. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    UAV commercial operation is regulated in Canada. Proper licensing, approvals, etc.
     
  4. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Also, you may need to worry about coming into Canada to work.
    On the other hand, if you're promoting Canadian tourism, etc. they seem far more receptive of the idea.

    Andy.
     
  5. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Its not that simple. You have to contact immigration and apply for a work permit. The permit must be filled out by the Canadian client. If there's no Canadian client you will have to apply yourself. They will only grant your application if there isn't anyone in the surrounding area that is capable of doing the work. Trust me I know as I learned this the hardway. I tried getting a van full of equipment and 2 people into Canada for a production shoot. I was told in advance I just needed to have the employer/client fill out a form and then to document all serial numbers of equipment. When I got there it was a completely different story and spent 3 hours in immigration before they told me to turnaround. They are very protective of Canadian's and do not want non Canadian's coming into the country to possibly take away work from Canadians that have the ability to do the job. I was told that they won't even allow anything more than a consumer camera into the country without a work permit, even if you are simply doing a demo reel. Also if you plan to apply a work permit with immigration the work study will take about a month to complete so make sure you allow plenty of time.
     
  6. Patrick Thompson

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    Lawrence,

    If you make it through the Canadian immigration process, I'd be happy to assist you with shooting in Canada, and can walk you through the SFOC(Flight Certificate) program from Transport Canada. It's a tedious albeit necessary part of shooting aerials, but can be accomplished easily with a bit of legwork, and time.
    In addition, if you need any gear or logistical advice, I'm happy to help; please contact me directly.

    Best,

    Patrick
    patrick.thompson@rogers.com

    ps….. and its's "Canucks", not "Yanks".
     
  7. Murray Hunt

    Murray Hunt New Member

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    Hi Lawrence:

    Here is the : Good news/ Bad news / Good news

    Good news - Transport Canada ( equivalent to FAA in the US) does allow commercial use of UAVs in Canada with a "SFOC" permit
    Bad news - You, not being Canadian will probably not be able to get Transport Canada's approval.
    Good news - My company, High Eye Aerial Imaging Inc. www.higheye.ca does have all of the necessary certification, and insurance for commercial UAV operation in Canada.
    If you were to engage our services...you would have no issues with either Immigration, or Transport Canada
    I would be more than happy to discuss how we could be of assistance

    If you are interested my email is murray@higheye.ca

    Thanks
    Murray Hunt
     
  8. Patrick Thompson

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    Nationality has no bearing on the acquisition of SFOC's, restricted or unrestricted. What are you basing this statement on?
     
  9. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Anyone can apply and be granted a SFOC permit but it doesn't mean anything if immigration won't let you in the country.

    If you are not a Canadian citizen you are not getting through the border with your gear unless you have applied for a special work permit that requires a survey study to be done in advance to see if any Canadian citizen in the area that you would be shooting can do the work. If there is your application will be declined. This process normally takes a month so its very important to get the application process started as early as possible.
     
  10. Patrick Thompson

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    Again, another COMPLETELY inaccurate statement. Film, media & broadcast crews DO NOT require work permits. Not sure what you guys are basing these statements on, but seriously, get your facts straight. You've also specified "shooting", implying that you have experience with this facet of the labour market. I'd like to know where you got your information from?
     
  11. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Let me clarify: IF you are talking something like CBS sports coming up and doing a hockey game you are correct but these affilates have already gone through the process where they have permits with immigration. The one area that I am not sure about is if you are doing something for say Discovery or National Geographic as to where those rules apply. With that said nobody can just walk across the border with a camera by just flashing crudentials without prior approval from immigration. Also Media like KDKA TV in Pittsburgh can go up but it has to be prearranged through immigration.

    I learned all these parts of immigration laws when I tried getting a van full of equipment and 2 people from the US into Canada for a production shoot. I was shooting a golf instructional video and I was told in advance I just needed to have the employer/client fill out a form and then to document all serial numbers of equipment. I was told that worst case scenario I would have to pay $150 for a special work permit on the spot. I spent days getting all the necessarily paper work together and having the golfer that hired me fill out the papers that the border said I needed. When I got there it was a completely different story. I spent 3 hours in immigration talking to 2 supervisors before they told me to turnaround. When I got home I talked to immigration and the border patrol (the ones that gave me the incorrect info in the first place) they all confirmed what I was told at the border. They are very protective of Canadian citizens and do not want non Canadian's coming into the country to possibly take away work from Canadians that have the ability to do the job. This includes freelancers, production companies, and any individuals that simply want to film Canada for any reason. They won't even allow anything more than a consumer camera into the country without a work permit. I was told that even if you are a college student doing a documentary or filming for your own demo reel that the same thing applies.
     
  12. Murray Hunt

    Murray Hunt New Member

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    Patrick:
    You are correct, I did not mean to imply that Canadian citizenship was a requirement to being issued an SFOC. On a similar note, Having completed a Transport Canada accepted aeronautical ground school course is also not a requirement.....demonstrating a knowledge and understanding of the material presented in such a course is a definite requirement in being issued an SFOC.
    The intent of my statement was that, not having a history of operation in Canada, and most likely not having an understanding of the C.A.R.'s, and how they are applied to UAV operations in Canada, would severely hamper the ability of being issued an SFOC.
    In addition to having an Ultralight Pilot Permit, I completed the " Civil and Commercial UAV Training Course" from the Canadian Centre for Unmanned Vehicle Systems.
    Based on my personal experience....I submitter 6 site specific SFOC applications over a 8 month period before I was issued a wide area SFOC. the approval process took from 30 to 90 days each time.
    In the case we are dealing with...if a perfectly completed application has not already been submitted.......it is highly unlikely that an SFOC would be issued by February 2014.
    Sorry if my attempt to shorten the above was misinterpreted

    Murray Hunt
     
  13. Patrick Thompson

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    Dave,

    What you're talking about is a CARNET, not a work permit, and one has little to do with the other.

    Murray,

    Your initial response- "Bad news - You, not being Canadian will probably not be able to get Transport Canada's approval", is what prompted my questioning.
     
  14. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    See http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/work/apply-who-nopermit.asp#p (Canadian immigration web site):

    If your job category is listed below, you do not need a work permit. However, you may need to meet other rules. Read the information carefully.

    News reporters, film and media crews
    People who are:

    • news reporters or members of their crews,
    • film or media crews who will not enter the Canadian labour market,
    • journalists who work for a print, broadcast or Internet news service (journal, newspaper, magazine, television show, etc.), if the company they work for is not Canadian,
    • resident correspondents or
    • managers and clerical staff, as long as the event is short term (six months or less).


    Special Flight Operations Certificates, and the requirements for obtaining them are described at:
    http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/standards/general-recavi-brochures-uav-2270.htm (Transport Canada's web site).
    No mention of citizenship or country of residence.

    Andy.
     
  15. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    OK I'll disagree.
     
  16. Patrick Thompson

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    Dave,

    I work with US & intn'l crews all the time, in both the motion picture industry, and the forensic engineering & inspection industry, and have never heard of, or experienced, the issues you speak of. You may want to speak with an entertainment lawyer to help assist you with your immigration challenges; it sounds like there are some other factors at play.

    In the same manner, I travel to the US, and abroad(with US production companies), and never have an issue, even when travelling with hundreds of pounds of gear.

    Though I'd love to entertain your $5K offer, I think we both know, that it would be better spent on resolving whatever legal issues are blocking your entry eligibility.
     
  17. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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  18. Paul Watt

    Paul Watt Member

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    Just engage a production service company in whatever location you're going to and get them to sort it all for you. This happens all the time, and it's easy and relatively cheap to deal with.
     
    Patrick Thompson likes this.
  19. Patrick Thompson

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  20. Murray Hunt

    Murray Hunt New Member

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    Gentlemen;

    For the benefit of anyone following this discussion, and interested in the real life SFOC application experience, I would like to offer a personal insight into the process. I don't call myself an expert, but based on many hours of navigating Transport Canada's website, mine, and some of my associates personal experience with submitting applications, I can share the following.



    The link to T.C.'s website posted by Andy is a good stating point, as it does contain information about the requirement of an SFOC, but what is more important is what it DOES NOT contain..... nowhere on T.C,'s website will you find any "form" , or "template" to guide you in the specifics of what the application must include. You may eventually find a document called a "Staff Instruction" ..a 62 page guide the T.C. inspectors use to review your application. I won't deprive you of the pleasure of reading this thriller, but one small example of the information to be included: You must demonstrate the ability to communicate with other airspace users ( manned aircraft). No big deal, all you need is a VHF radio capable of transmitting in the aeronautical frequencies...... except that to legally transmit on the VHF Air Band Frequencies you are require to have a " Radio Operator Certificate - Aeronautical" ( ROC-A). In order to be issued an ROC-A you must pass a test administered by Industry Canada.....( You guessed it...another Government department)



    You may also find information suggesting the normal response time to an application is 20 days. My first submission, as well as that of many other people I talked to , the initial response time was in the order of 60 days, and as often as not, the initial "response" was to require additional information. From that point you application enters into a state of "suspended animation", the ultimate issuing of the SFOC can vary from a few more days to weeks, depending on when you can get the additional information to them, and how busy the inspectors are.


    As mentioned by Patrick, once you have an understanding of the process, and have the time, patience, and recourses to put the application together...its a piece of cake...... If not....Maybe Paul's suggestion makes sense
     
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