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Drone Legislation: Should we get involved?

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Andy Johnson-Laird, Mar 2, 2013.

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Should we get involved in drone legislation & attend public hearings and explain RC copters?

  1. Yes: It would be good to be involved in shaping legislation that will affect us

    100.0%
  2. No: It may attract unwanted media attention and come back to haunt us

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. No: It will not change any outcomes, so it will not merit the time and effort

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Colin Snow

    Colin Snow Active Member

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  2. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Thanks, Colin.
    Is the author's name really Dorsey Plunk? Hmmm.

    Andy.
     
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  3. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    Oregon, Texas..will NY be next?

    Mysterious aircraft sighting near JFK Airport sparks FAA investigation

    3/5/2013
    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/pilot_reports_mystery_black_drone_Tnp57ufZY3NToa47SuCIKL

    "The Alitalia pilot spotted the unmanned craft — described as “a black drone” — hovering just 200 feet from his jet about three miles east of the airport as he made his approach from Brooklyn.
    “He was very clear as to what he saw,” a source said.
    The pilot told investigators the object was flying at about 1,800 feet and looked like “a black drone about a meter square, with helicopter rotors on the corners."

    "In all the years I’ve been with the airport, I can’t remember a similar incident,” one investigator said.
    “Whether this is a hobbyist or not, it raises serious concerns."

    Hovering at 1,800 feet it has to be only one thing...someone flying an FPV multi. Dare I say someone was intentionally flying that close to an airport in order to capture dramatic FPV footage ala Blacksheep style?? If so, I think I'll go absolutely ape shit!
     
  4. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Thanks for posting that link, Howard. The additional details are pretty unambiguous. 1,800 feet. Wow. Most other reports are saying 1,500 feet -- not that it makes a huge difference other than to question the veracity of the reporting.

    Washington Times: "'black drone' that hovered 200 feet from his jet."
    See http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/5/drone-sighting-jfk-leaves-witnesses-puzzled-worrie/
    (Image of Seattle police officer holding a drone : Seattle's mayor banned their use so the police department allegedly returned the drones to Draganfly).
    Interesting that they didn't post any image of a copter just the control tower at JFK...

    A Google search for: JFK drone
    shows that the web is buzzing with essentially the same story being repeated, some with additional errors. Sigh.

    Sadly no stories about safe "drone" flights being completed without incident, so if I were a legislator and unaware of the facts relating to copters, it would be hard not to react to the JFK story inappropriately.

    Andy.
     
  5. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    Possibly 1,500-1,800 feet in altitude at 200 feet distance away from the airliner? Either way not good especially now that the FAA are investigating.
     
  6. Ryan J. Rowe

    Ryan J. Rowe Member

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  7. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Ummm. "Our" side? ;)

    Andy.
     
  8. Ryan J. Rowe

    Ryan J. Rowe Member

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    Only said "our" side because the article made some pretty valid points about why sb71 may be a bad idea.... Maybe I missed something. I'll read it again....

    Ryan
     
  9. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Actually a good article Ryan. But outrageous on the cartoon...
     
  10. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    And the author of the article may not have read SB-71. Flying a Parrot isn't a misdemeanor -- failing to register the Parrot with the Oregon Department of Aviation, and then flying it, is a misdemeanor! Big difference.

    Andy.
     
  11. Colin Snow

    Colin Snow Active Member

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  12. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Actually, this Bill seems quite rational (sorry about the weird line breaks but they're in the original PDF file).


    ‘‘§ 3119f. Private use of unmanned aircraft systems
    ‘‘It shall be unlawful to intentionally operate a pri-
    vate unmanned aircraft system to capture, in a manner
    that is highly offensive to a reasonable person, any type
    of visual image, sound recording, or other physical impres-
    sion of a individual engaging in a personal or familial ac-
    tivity under circumstances in which the individual had a
    reasonable expectation of privacy, through the use of a vis-
    ual or auditory enhancing device, regardless of whether
    there is a physical trespass, if this image, sound recording,
    or other physical impression could not have been achieved
    without a trespass unless the visual or auditory enhancing
    device was used.

    Andy.
     
  13. Ryan J. Rowe

    Ryan J. Rowe Member

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  14. Ryan J. Rowe

    Ryan J. Rowe Member

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    Ha....A Forensic Software Analyst doesn't miss a thing!
     
  15. Colin Snow

    Colin Snow Active Member

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  16. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    I'm concerned that the folks on camera may not have read SB-71. It does not make it a misdemeanor to own a "drone." It makes it a requirement that you have to register it with the Oregon Dept of Aviation ("ODOA") and seek permission to fly it. If you don't, then it is a misdemeanor:

    SECTION 2. (1) A person may not possess or control a drone unless permitted to do so
    by the federal government or by the Oregon Department of Aviation under section 7 of this
    2013 Act.

    SECTION 7. The Oregon Department of Aviation may issue licenses to persons to operate
    drones in the airspace of Oregon for the purpose of implementing section 2 of this 2013 Act.

    I read Section 2.(1) as saying you have to register your drones with the ODOA. Other paras. of section 2 then indicate that it's a misdemeanor to operate a drone if you do not.

    I read Section 7 as saying the the ODOA may set up a licensing system, or it may not. I do not read it as ODA may, on a whim, issue individuals a license or it may not.

    Personally, I'm more concerned with this kind of language:

    SECTION 3. (1) A person who operates a drone in the airspace of Oregon without permission
    from the Oregon Department of Aviation, or from the person with the right to possession
    of the land below the airspace, is guilty of a Class C misdemeanor.

    And then, of course, there is the definition of "drone."

    SECTION 1. As used in sections 1 to 7 of this 2013 Act:
    (1) “Airspace of Oregon” means the space above the ground that is not part of airspace
    governed by federal law.
    (2) “Drone” means an unmanned flying machine that is capable of:
    (a) Capturing images of objects or people on the ground or in the air;
    (b) Intercepting communications on the ground or in the air; or
    (c) Firing a bullet or other projectile.
    (3) “Public body” has the meaning given in ORS 174.109.

    As defined, this means registering with the ODOA everything from a kite with a camera, to an MQ1-B Predator.

    Oh, and the FAA governs all Class G airspace, so there can be no Airspace of Oregon.

    Andy.
     
  17. Riley VanNyhuis

    Riley VanNyhuis New Member

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    Yes, I agree with you on this one Andy. Overall I think it is better to get involved and show that it is not just idiots out there flying these around, and also that all uav's are not controlled by the military/police trying to look in your window. If we can establish that there are professionals out there using their heads it will hopefully help our cause. I also think there should be some rules to follow to prevent someone from getting hurt, but we professionals should be setting the standard for what the rules should be, and not politicians, and scared/misinformed citizens. The only way to accomplish these goals is to be involved.
     
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  18. Ryan J. Rowe

    Ryan J. Rowe Member

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    Couldn't agree more Riley! Opportunities to make a difference and get involved are coming...so stay tuned.;)
     
  19. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    I just received an email from Oregon Senator Floyd Prozanski. He wrote that the Original Bill SB-71 was just a "placeholder." It has been amended as shown in the attached SB 71-4. I've just speed read it and it seems orders of magnitude better than the original Bill.

    Some initial comments:

    <disclaimer>
    As I have said before: I'm not an attorney, nor do I play one on the Internet or TV. But I do try to understand the Bill for my own purposes so what I'm saying below is my understanding, not advice to you as to what it means. You should read the document yourself and form your own conclusions and/or consult an attorney.
    </disclaimer>

    Section 1. The original definition of Airspace of Oregon has been deleted.
    The definition of Drone still seems very broad and encompasses kites, model aircraft, copters, and MQ1-B Predators, but given the other dramatic changes to the Bill I am not sure it matters that much.

    Section 2. There are numerous references to ORS (Oregon Statutes), so I have looked them up
    ORS 165.540 : Obtaining contents of communications.
    ORS 164.245 : Trespass with a motor vehicle.
    ORS 163.732 : Stalking

    There is no longer any requirement for an individual to register their "drones" with the Oregon Department of Aviation ("ODOA").
    Nor is it a misdemeanor for an individual to operate a drone.

    But the most interesting thing are the dramatic changes to Section 7.

    SECTION 7. (1) Any person who owns or lawfully occupies real​
    property in this state may bring an action against any person who​
    operates a drone that is flown at a height of less than 400 feet over the​
    property unless:​
    “(a) The drone is lawfully in the flight path of an airport, airfield​
    or runway; and​
    “(b) The drone is in the process of taking off or landing.​
    “(2) A plaintiff may recover treble damages for any injury to the​
    person or the property by reason of a trespass by a drone as described​
    in this section, and may be awarded injunctive relief in the action.​
    “(3) A court shall award reasonable attorney fees to a prevailing​
    plaintiff in an action under this section.​

    So, my reading of this is that, while it is not a crime/misdemeanor to operate the "drone" at lower than 400 feet, the property owner can file suit if you do. It appears that you cannot traverse someone's property either -- to do so means going above 400 feet and that would put you in violation of the 400 foot limit imposed by the Academy of Model Aeronautics and the FAA regs. (such as they are).

    As a side note: your GPX file could prove to be interesting evidence in a case if you are sued!

    Bottom line, it appears that this version of the Bill makes a lot more sense and really doesn't raise any major issues for private individuals flying childrens' toys or even Cinestars.

    If anyone else has comments, I'd appreciate knowing them.
    Andy.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Section 7 would be struck down based on previous Supreme Court cases in my opinion. Again they are trying to regulate airspace. And while a property owner does 'own' some of the space above their castle it is limited basically to the height of his castle.

    City of Boulder once tried something similar to protect Bald Eagles west of town in the Flatirons. FAA shut that down so fast it was amazing.
     
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