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M15 announces for $12k and no upgrade from M10

Discussion in 'MōVI M15' started by Aaranyan Ramanujam, Sep 12, 2014.

  1. bevan goldswain

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    Dear Freefly.

    To say your customers are upset with you would be a gross understatement.
    This is your core group of fans, the believers, the front line, who raised you on their shoulders and lifted you up above the rest.
    You have made us so angry, listen up. I think you owe it to us to take the stand and explain yourself. Either apologise or defend your position. Your silence angers us more.

    I feel I speak for us all when I say we have been lied to.
    If you gave us accurate information months ago I may have sold my Movi M10 then.

    The exact information regarding what is being improved in the M15 seems to be nothing more than structural. Freefly, you seem cagey at the best of times when asked direct questions regarding actual improvements regarding the motors and the sensors. You seem very reluctant to have a proper conversation about it. Why? If you have drastically improved the motors/sensors or how they work, I would expect you'd be keen to talk about it.

    The full cage that surrounds the camera I believe should be a FREE upgrade. Because it's a structural improvement that makes a very big difference to stability of the system as the original mount for the camera is definitely a bit wobbly - it cannot properly support the cameras that the Movi m10 have been recommended for without a considerable amount of play that effects the stiffness settings that can be acheived. It is so wobbly that I have had many from Freefly recommend wedging in cardboard to assist in supporting the camera. Cardboard, seriously? I have a huge problem with this because no where on your website do you ever show a camera rigged up with cardboard. Its not on any rigs at any of your shows, and it's not in any marketing videos. Yet it is the official suggestion to deal with the inadequate support given by the original design.

    Because to put cardboard all over your show rigs would be to admit something lacking in design, and to do that would mean an enclosed camera cage would be an obvious FREE upgrade for those who purchased the Beta version.

    On top of the gross misinformation, you have sprung this on us with a very limited time frame to take up your "offer". What do you expect to achieve with limiting the time frame that we can accept such generosity?

    Freefly, we are all very eager to hear from you.
     
  2. Simon Weyhe

    Simon Weyhe New Member

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    A little side note on price drop, i heard from Cinemilled that the dji ronin has since it was launched sold more units than all other gimbal manufactures combined. That´s hard to beat, So i guess freefly needed to make moves, to keep up, which is fair enough, but they need to rethink this upgrade option and be fair to us that supported them since day one. Can´t wait to hear some feedback form them, cause as Wolf wrote, they are aware of how rumble there is on this forum...
     
  3. Charles Lim

    Charles Lim Member

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    I agree , the m15 shows how underdeveloped the m10 in terms of it's design. actually the m5 was already doing that.
     
  4. Chuck Taylor

    Chuck Taylor New Member

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    I'm agreeing with everyone here. This is nothing less than insulting. Freefly, please speak up.
     
  5. bevan goldswain

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    Hey Tabb, Thanks for the post it was a moving read. You have grown the company really quickly and it's been a tough ride... we get it. You guys aren't perfect... we get it.

    Thanks for admitting that you guys really screwed up the upgrade path (your words not mine). It's us who bear the brunt of that. No one likes it when people go back on their promises/commitments.

    Your way of putting things though, that you have given us a half price M15 in addition to our M10 is just not something that most of us seem to agree with. The way it is being seen by your fans, your believers, your early adopters is this:

    You halved the price of our existing M10 and Doubled the upgrade path that was promised, that we were holding out for.

    We gave you our cash last year months before a release, and you surprise us with an upgrade path that goes back on your word, erodes our trust and you force a very narrow window for us to decide in. This is not the action of someone who cares, it comes across to me and I believe most others as actions that are guided by profit margins.

    Is wedging cardboard in around the camera still freefly's official stance on trying to make the camera sit firmly on the gimbal for the M10?
    Because the camera support really is not very secure at all, and has so much play that it needs something to make the system work well.
    (this is the problem you guys fixed with the fully enclosed cage)

    If cardboard is the fix then would you mind updating the user manual and the images of the gimbal on the website to include the cardboard supports, I think it would give potential buyers a better understanding of what they are buying.

    I know I am being facetious, but you have to understand our anger. After the M5 was brought out which was just a few months after the M10, it was quickly apparent that we purchased a Beta product. When cardboard is the suggested operating method for a problem that gets fixed by some simple mechanical changes we cant help but feel like guinea pigs who tested out your beta model for you.

    But wait.... Freefly announces an upgrade path to the real deal. They honour the earlier adoptors who bought in to the beta phase.
    GREAT. What a story of a company that cares.

    Fast forward to today, and here we are. We were strung along to this point and now you have given us a 2 week deadline to take you up on your deal.

    Things change, yes. We'd be stupid not to think prices would come down, of course they will. But after you make a promise for an upgrade path you should keep it.

    For the meantime... I will just keep wedging in little bits of cardboard.
     
  6. Wolf Schiebel

    Wolf Schiebel Active Member

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    Hi ,

    i just had the time to pick it up 2 minutes with the Sony F-55, and there is no real difference, except that the distance from the handlebar to belly is higher… which might be a pain for some operators…. I didn´t actually feel the added weight.



    No, the M-1o was the same as usual, just with the toad and the new pan-knuckle.

    Best,

    Wolf
     
  7. Charles Lim

    Charles Lim Member

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    Man. All that waiting.... They should have rolled this out much much eariler.
     
  8. Adolfo Cantu-Villarreal

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    Just to pitch in with the latest, the M10 will get a full camera cage "shortly".

     
  9. Brad Meier

    Brad Meier Active Member
    Staff Member

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    Wolf, I wish we could've met. The M10 did in fact have the full cage and pan knuckle upgrade with a RED Dragon/CNE-24 and follow focus.
     
  10. Adolfo Cantu-Villarreal

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    Hi Brad,

    That's great! Did it have the rest of the upgrades introduced with the M5? Quick release top handle? Tool-less handles for quick inverted mode? We get that and we're almost up to date with the M5 improvements on the M10 and I think that's the kind of good news the M10 owners could use...

    And from your experience there, once the M10 gets the upgrades, will the M15 be significantly different technology-wise? Or is it mainly the maximum payload increase?
     
  11. Wolf Schiebel

    Wolf Schiebel Active Member

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    Hi Brad,

    maybe i just saw another M-10, sorry. I was too busy talking to the guys.... so i didn't really look closely at all the stuff (just M-15), since i know it quite well ;-) it would have been nice to meet you...

    Best Wolf
     
  12. James Adkins

    James Adkins Member

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    Several months ago I asked to buy the parts to make our M10 full cage but was told they weren't available. For $150 I bought parts and did it myself. It works great and I will keep the rest of my money. Successful businesses are very adept at extracting money from their customers wallets; successful customers are adept at finding ways to save money.
     
  13. bevan goldswain

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    Hi James. I'd love to see you adaption. What did you use for the top plate?
     
  14. James Adkins

    James Adkins Member

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    I was thinking of selling it as a kit to recover some of the M10 value I just lost.
     
  15. bevan goldswain

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    I'll buy your kit if you bring it out before freefly does. Just don't quote me a price now and ask me to pay double when you are ready to ship ;-)
     
  16. James Adkins

    James Adkins Member

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    I value my reputation so I don't roll that way ;-)
     
  17. Austin Glass

    Austin Glass Active Member

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    I know you guys are being facetious, but no one is doubling the price. They are offering something entirely different, and yes, that different thing has a higher price. The value of what they are offering is equivalent to what they were offering.

    I'm guessing that when they realized the retrofit upgrade path was too cost prohibitive at the scale they needed to, they explored every option possible in hopes to find a solution. Is this plan the same as the old one? No, but I'd rather Freefly come up with a solution that allows them to avoid bankruptcy and keep making cool stuff. I think the witch hunt has ran its course. Now it's time to move past your emotional reaction, and do the math. Maybe putting it on paper helps. Sell the M10, and your out of pocket cost will roughly equal what you were planning to spend on an upgrade (factoring in product devaluation). Products lose value. As professionals buying professional tools, we plan for that, and expect it.

    I'm not trying to criticize anyone for being upset, because I was at first, too, but it took me all of 5 minutes to figure out that I was getting the same deal as before.
     
    Wolf Schiebel likes this.
  18. Charles Lim

    Charles Lim Member

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    +1 - I want one please! also . meanwhile Seriously can u just lengthen the roll bar?
     
  19. Wolf Schiebel

    Wolf Schiebel Active Member

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    Austin, i totally agree. The only thing i am not happy with is the short timeframe of two weeks. I'm in a project now until mid of november, so i obviously can't sell my M-10 now. But i am sure that there will be a solution,soon and an extension of this deadline.

    Best,

    Wolf
     
    Norbert Blenk and Austin Glass like this.

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