Alta 8 vs Shotover U1

Discussion in 'ALTA 8' started by Bryan Harvey, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. Bryan Harvey

    Bryan Harvey Member

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    Obviously completely different beasts in terms of technology and specs, but wondering if anybody here has any experience with the U1? Of course U1 looks amazing on their website, but wondering what the real world opinion is. Only asking because I have a job inquiry and they don't know much other than they THINK they want to fly a U1 (based on what, I don't know - probably just the fancy website and launch video).
    The job specs would allow Red Helium with Cine primes.
    My feeling is Alta is way more proven/tested trusted, better flight controller, but I can't speak with any real knowledge comparing it to U1. Of course I'd love to tell them U1 is all hype and still largely untested, but I can't find anything online where it's actually been in use.
     
  2. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

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    Hello Bryan,

    Shotover U1, apart from the gimbal, is very over priced system for what it can do. Shotover U1g (the gimbal of this system) is totaly another thing and in terms of specs there is no match for it at the moment.

    Alone the gimbal(U1g) is priced around $70K and what it offers:

    * 4kg weight so it's good for aerial
    * 10x more pan motor torque when compared to Movi (This it what Shotover says)
    * Integrated Wireless Image transmission system
    * Integrated FIZ controller
    * The longest lens you can adopt is Canon 17-120 with Alexa Mini/ Red Weapon which is not possible with current Movi setups

    Shotover has been in the film industry for a long time and they know what to do with the gimbal. So, on paper U1g i pretty solid and according to some users, it's really working very well. Because U1g is very powerful yet light, it's also very adaptable to car chasing rigs which requires a solid motor torque to handle the momentum and this hasn't been possible with M15. But Movi Pro has doubled pan motor torque which overcomes the problem (Freefly says so).

    If the main intention is for aerial, I'd go with a lighter setup; in this example Movi Pro since it's light and capable of carrying most of the cine primes if we are talking about Zeiss Master Primes, Leica Summilux or Cooke S4. U1g comes into play when you need a big zoom lens which Movi Pro can't handle.

    Personally, I don't like gimbals that integrates everything into the box; so I prefer a system where I can select my own choice of video transmission system, FIZ unit and remote controlling mechanism. Freefly offers the most versatile system on the market for now as you can have their Movi Controller or keep using PPM/SBUS remotes for old schools. For less complete system, there are options such as Gremsy H16 which looks like a good choice in terms of performance and pan motor torque. (Pan motor torque is quite important if you are shooting lots of car commercials). But when you compare H16 and Movi Pro in terms of expand-ability and accessory list, Movi Pro wins the game.

    Shotover U1 drone doesn't offer anything that other systems can't do. In fact, an Alta8 or a well prepared custom system will perform at least at the same level performance / stability.

    So, apart from the price point, I can't see why an Alta8 + Movi Pro wouldn't do what you need.

    Personally, we keep flying with Movi's and for our chasing car system we will decide between Movi XL and Shotover U1 but our choice will be Movi XL for our chase car most probably as it can carry Alexa XT which U1g can't.

    For aerials, we are also evaluating Gremsy H16 as it can talk with flight controller for a better horizon hold performance.

    Hope this helps.
     
  3. Bryan Harvey

    Bryan Harvey Member

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    Hi Oskan, This detailed info is extremely helpful and very appreciated. Thank you very much!
     
  4. SeBaStIaN BArrEtT

    SeBaStIaN BArrEtT Active Member

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    +1 on everything you say. Bryan, if flying, while doing significant amounts of tracking, currently best priced system is Alta 8 with a H16. I have been on a shoot where I was essentially replaced by the U1g combo, and literally couldn't describe it any more accurately than Ozkan. . . U1 overrated/priced (though super cool looking), gimbal was great.

    I cannot find many ways to justify the shotover gimbal if the XL is reasonably close in price to other movi gear. . .
     
    #4 SeBaStIaN BArrEtT, Dec 24, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
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  5. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    Also the U1/Drone is 55lbs overweight limits once you load it up + its F'ing HUGE!!!

    H16 has been working great for us, their support is awesome as well :)

    MoviPro is pretty, just awaiting someone.... anyone.... to actually confirm it holds side profile with 13lbs payload, max speed 18m/sec for over 100m, side profile.
     
  6. SeBaStIaN BArrEtT

    SeBaStIaN BArrEtT Active Member

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    Yea the u1 is definitely massive once setup. . .

    And Jason, I know that comment was kinda directed at me. I'm really sorry I have dealing with funerals, shoots, blah blah. I promise I did not forget. If it's any consolation, I have had the alta 8 and movi pro combo for about 2 weeks now and have not had 5 free minutes to fly together. . . I'm pretty frustrated by that too.

    I was really hoping Tabb or freefly would see our requests for the video on the other thread, but I'm not surprised if they don't have 5 free minutes either. Would definitely be appreciated tho.

    That's great the Gremsy customer support is on point. I have only rented/borrowed their equipment, but it sounds like purchasing (if movi pro won't hold and xl is too expensive) would not be a mistake.
     
  7. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    LOL, no it wasn't directed to you. I know everyone is busy w/ their own lives + the holidays don't help w/ freeing up time. Honestly someone at Freefly should just go to an approved area to test, take a video and write down real world specs and overbuild accordingly. Wild that this hasn't been done, makes me think that their equipment is made/sold with limited actual real world testing.

    Movi M15 = load it up with 9lbs (13lbs total weight including gimbal, fly full speed, tracking shot and it fails everytime after about 10-15 secs).
    Alta 6 = See what they put on that thing an NAB, yeah maybe they tested that setup hovering LOL!!!
    Movi Controller = I know they are limited to FCC regs but using on a drone is pretty pointless, can't get ore then 200-300ft with it (should have been 900Mhz or lower for range). Yeah its long for studio work but they are originally a UAV company?
    OG Cinestar = yeah they didn't provide a full build, Quadro did... but that thing was so under powered for a Red, just because it flies doesn't mean it should.

    All my ranting might seam like I'm a Freefly basher but actually I think they are great, but we operate tons and have witnessed many issues, brought up with support and nothing happened for months, years... just hope one year they come out with a real professional UAV, its so close but they dropped the ball with some motor/esc designs that could have/be fixed relatively easy.

    But its just me complaining, I'm just tiered of building drones LOL. We have build 7 for our teams this year w/ another 10 builds in spring, takes as about 40hr from start to production ready . I'd rather just buy the damn things but there is still nothing that compares which doesn't make sense. Once the Alta has been upgraded to 95amp esc and larger motors so it can handle a 25-30lbs payload (everything but the drone frame) w/ 50% hover ratios I'm in, will shut up and buy... oh + a coaxial for size, wind resistance and orientation viability :)
     
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  8. SeBaStIaN BArrEtT

    SeBaStIaN BArrEtT Active Member

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    Wow I'm jealous, wish I had the hours for drone builds on that level. We're headed that way tho. Alta 8 has been good, have not had to send in so no problems yet. And yea, I find myself agreeing with you. But. . . .freefly should have a little capital to put into alta after the success (super naive assumption) of movi pro, and I would be surprised if they did not take heed of the response from uav pros that need not only a couple more pounds of tracking, but also put out a uav for the xl? The pan tests seem to be going well, I'll let aerial specialist like yourself tell me for sure though.
     
    #8 SeBaStIaN BArrEtT, Jan 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  9. SeBaStIaN BArrEtT

    SeBaStIaN BArrEtT Active Member

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    And I really don't know their competition/custom-build pricing that well, but freefly seems to have a decent price-point on the alta?
     
  10. Davis DiLillo

    Davis DiLillo New Member

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    Jason,

    I can confirm, movi pro red epic dragon angeneiux 30-80 mattebox FIZand filter at 40mph (18m/s) sideways rock solid. Starts to show signs of giving out around 45mph totally gives up at 50mph. This was on a car to quickly test. It's been raining a lot in LA.

    I was super impressed.

    I think you can get much more with better tuning and a smaller lens. I hardly fiddled with it.

    I am working on Fuji 19-90 now with cinemilled plate.
     

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  11. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    YOUR AWESOME!!!! Thanks so much for the testing.

    How are you liking the Pro, what issues or annoying things are you finding with it.

    Any insight would be great before we drop a ton of cash on more Movi's. We just bought 4x H16's recently and are working great but need a bunch more gimbals and torn between more H16's or Pro's (Gremsy's support is unsurpassed, while FF's is less so).

    Later, J
     
  12. Davis DiLillo

    Davis DiLillo New Member

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    It's awesome to be honest. A few things, still not enough rear slide for the cage. Have to use coutnerwaits still

    The two dtaps underneath the baseplate are side by side with no clearance. So be prepared with your dtap cables so they oppose each other. Otherwise there is no space for cable clearance.

    Also on the back of the movi pro there is a d-tap that is 12volts for some odd reason. It can't power some things you might want on the handle. And what runs off 12volts that can't run off 14?

    Also the camera base plate has 3/8 and 1/4 screws which is awesome. But the 3/8th screws don't line up nicely with everything and often ends up with only one point of contact.

    Another annoyance is the red cntrl cable I purchased doesn't reach on the red weapon. It's clearly the proper length for the epic.

    Also with the movi pro we have full red control, except the ability to format the card. This is hugely important sometimes. So I'm finding myself still connecting the evf to change some camera settings.
     
  13. Davis DiLillo

    Davis DiLillo New Member

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    Love those rapture drones you guys fly. I'm a big x8 fan also. Have you been flying the A3 lately? So many bugs but flight performance is killer. Having the map telemetry for long distance car chances is amazing.

    Oh an no altitude drop like the a2
     
  14. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    Thanks on the kind words and the previous post... looks like someone at FF forgot to fully test another product in a real world environment LOL.

    Have you tried the Semote, its sweet!
    http://www.videofax.com/semote-wireless-camera-remote-controller-155.htm

    The Raptures are tanks which are great for production, we beat the crap out of the on a daily basis and they don't show any signs of quitting. I was tired from traveling 1 day and forgot to fully tighten the TX antenna (lesson learned), it went into failsafe in the woods and fell 80ft, hitting every branch on the way down... dusted it off, replaced props, fixed a few standoffs and was up and running (Alexa was saved by the destroyed M15). CAD design of V02 finished last week and goes to production after some rapid prototyping this month. Hope to get them back for build-outs this spring, excited but also tired of building drones :) We didn't really need to upgrade them but after V02 there is not much more I'd need... actually V03 is stirring in my head already DAMN IT!

    We have been testing the A3pro and RTK, its flies like a dream on an 18" prop system BUT buggy as hell so I stopped testing and awaiting for new firmware. Main issue is we have a IMU/GPS disconnection when we swap batteries so it will not arm, but after you replug in batteries a few times it reconnects. Not sure if its a hardware or software issue but DJI has been zero help as expected. But very promising, it will probably be ready when the A4 is released... so for now we still kick it old school on WKM's



    Night, J
     
  15. Chris Schuster

    Chris Schuster New Member

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    Jason:
    We have our A8 programed for 32degrees of pitch and roll. MPro loaded with our Mini w/2 cforce mini motors, 18mm super speed, and Tomahawk. Drones #1 was 1350 feet down range at 400AGL (topped out) Shot required full stick deflection and hold it for the full 1350 foot run with camera turned profile. A8 flew at 50MPH and was pulling 100amps out of each battery (200amps in total), enough to turn the over current light on (which i never knew the thing had until then). Shot came out perfect. FYI, this was in dead calm air but, it was also 4700MSL and 38F outside. Im pretty shocked at the pan performance diff with this new gimbal. It lays an M15 to waste in that regard. We had 3 H16s, sold em all. (1.5min boot time ...ah..no and way too heavy for any Alta)
     
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  16. SeBaStIaN BArrEtT

    SeBaStIaN BArrEtT Active Member

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    +1. . . .A8 with mpro. the gimbal pan has been so far far so great. . . .though those numbers are awesome. i have not approached those speeds yet.
     
  17. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    Appreciate the info, we ordered a few pros based off of other users similar findings. Will be picking these up on Monday and putting it thru it's pace! The H16's have been pretty good for us, but glad the Pro is doing what it's supposed to do! Now only if they beefed up the Alta 8, she huge and a bit weak, needs at least a 45lbs total weight capacity (might as well just do the legal weight capacity of 55lbs), min 95amp ESC's, 18msec (12msec doesn't cut it for car commercials) and redundant flight controller w/ a removable RTK option... then we got a drone (oh and make an X8 version, or just finally come out w/ the dodecca :).
     
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  18. Graham Hay

    Graham Hay New Member

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    What firmware do you use with your WKM's? I went all the way up to v5.24 and then retreated to v5.16 after some unexplained hijinks. The only thing I really missed was the easy access in the field via iOS.
     
  19. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    We are on 5.24 & all has been good for a 5 year old flight controller :)

    Slowly migrating to A3, she flys so good but needs some more tweeting to put into production.
     
  20. Graham Hay

    Graham Hay New Member

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    Good to know, thanks. Maybe I will go there again and get back easy iOS access.
     

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